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That sounds like your body telling you not to do it.

It also leaves you in a very suggestive state. I did several sessions with a “rebirther” years ago, basically holotropic breath work. I decided I didn’t really need it, and I went in my last few sessions determined to quit, but at the end of the session, the practitioner always managed to convince me I needed another session. I eventually broke it off with him over the phone.

It sounds like you experienced oxygen deprivation.

I've heard about people awakening their kundalini with that. It fucked them for years since they had no clue what was happening, and no preparation or support.

Yes! Holotropic is crazy strong. I remember having to sign a waiver that was akin to a skydiving waiver before doing holotropic breathwork session online. Highly recommended if you feel inclined to try it.

It can be deeply emotional for some.

Oxygen deprivation? As noted in the study, circular breathwork has been shown to increase blood oxygenation

At least I appreciate they have the decency to not call it "higher states of consciousness". Altered is what they are, altered almost to the point of losing it, but definitely not higher - at least for my understanding where "higher" would mean some added capabilities not attained otherwise.

I feel the same. I did it once and had a big experience, but I just can my talk myself into believing it’s safe.

Free divers experience the same hypoxia and hypercapnia effects. Doesn't seem to be a problem.

To add to this - if you get buried in an avalanche you likely go hypoxic. Many people pulled out sometimes in the moment react negatively to be saved as they are pulled out of a euphoric state even though they are literally getting saved from death.

Just don't do Wim Hof type breathing while driving, near water or risk of fall is high. You can pass out or faint easily if you do it a little wrong.

Thank you for introducing me to this. Having done just one round, the effects are reminiscent of nitrous oxide. Very interesting indeed! As you suggest, I think I'll try this again after a bout of vigorous exercise.

Did you feel like it was “good” for you in any way? I’ve experienced the euphoria and I definitely compare it to nitrous oxide, in that it is pleasurable, fleeting and unfulfilling. Plus I sometimes ended up with a persistent headache.

It made me feel better temporarily in a time of distress, but like any drug, it only numbed me and did nothing to improve my outlook.

Wim hof feels great, but I always kinda feel like I’m doing something mildly unhealthy when I do it

How exactly do you ‘do’ wim hof and for how long?

EXACTLY! That's why you breathe into a paper-bag (or smoke) to increase CO2 so that the filters open and you get to a point where you feel O2 tingles all over your brain. This is extremely powerful; I practiced that and underwater held-breath swimming and hanging out underwater for a long time to obtain permanent changes that have made me far more effective. Based on work first published by W.Wenger out of a Maryland Think-tank some 50? years ago.

Any pointers to read more ?

My GP friends only pointed me to respiratory alcalosis, which doesn’t appear to be about O2 levels at all - it’s the pH being out of the narrow “acceptable” band (too low in the case of hyperventilation) appeared to cause a lot of effect.

Was the narrative something like, "you're on a mountaintop. You look around and see..." Or was it more abstract than that?

An ascetic will tell you that a purer experience of spiritual connection is something you can control and remember afterwards.

There's a product out, Freespira, that does breath work training monitored by a nasal cannula, to help people who experience panic attacks. The theory is that such people are chronic hyperventilators, so their blood CO2 is too low for the parasympathetic nervous system to operate correctly.

It didn't end up being a good fit for me, but if a person's PTSD comes from discrete events rather than a continually unsafe environment in early childhood, I think they'd have a better experience. (My parasympathetic nervous system never learned how to operate correctly, but if someone else's did and its function got interrupted later, I think their experience would be different.)

The article mentioned Holotropic Breathwork, which is a method Stanislav Grof came up with after no longer being able to use LSD for his research in the 1960s. I haven't taken a course in it, but it does seem similar to Wim Hof's technique, which you can follow along an intro of on his YouTube [1].

All of it is pretty similar to various pranayama techniques that have existed in the yogas for thousands of years though. Iyengar's Light on Pranayama is a good resource for the various practices [2]. While Wim Hof and Holotropic Breathwork are slightly different, the closest to them from the yogas would maybe be bhastrika pranayam (and here's a random guy on YouTube that comes up when googling it -- just skimming it and it looks basically like what I was taught [3]).

Edit: I realized I didn't answer your question regarding how pranayama/breathwork compares to meditation. It's different than meditation (dhyana or jhana), but it's complimentary and there are elements that are similar. For instance, during pranayama practice you'll often have breath holds/retentions and during that time you'll be instructed to bring your awareness to something (a point on your body, on the awareness itself, etc). This is generally what you'd do in formal meditation practice too, but in this case it's for a much shorter period of time (the length of the breath hold). So in a way it gets you used to working with your awareness, to bring it internal for short periods of time many times. Many people will practice pranayama before beginning formal seated meditation practice. I personally use nadi shodhana before meditation practice, and more vigorous pranayamas like kapalbhati and bhastrika before/during/after asana practice. They're also good to do in the middle of the day when you need a bit of a reset.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ

[2] https://archive.org/details/iyengar-bks-light-on-pranayama-o...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I578H4VoZiY

But hyperventilating sounds scientific and reductive circles are mystical and sell well! And we gotta separate our ancient shamanic yogi breathing school from those damn box breathing gurus!

Yep. Feels good man.

Same as all the psychs.

And altered perspective can make you wiser.

if this topic interests you, check out this interview with Dr. Jack Feldman: https://hubermanlab.com/dr-jack-feldman-breathing-for-mental... -- i found the section about the effects of periodic hypoxia without retaining CO2 quite fascinating.

It takes a while to get used to breathwork. When I started, focusing on the breath always gave me anxiety. It took quite a while to make it into a comfortable experience.

The study that has been mentioned talks about Holotropic Breathwork and Consciously-Connected breathwork are. I have worked with CCB.

Your buddy ought to see a healthcare professional, I'm just some guy on the internet.

That said: here's a description of prodromal schizophrenia. Your description reads like category #2 to me.

"Prodrome phase can also be categorized in three different ways:

    Category 1 means the patient should have at least one of the following symptoms: False beliefs that random events in the world directly relate to them, odd beliefs, or magical thinking; visual disturbance; odd thinking and speech; paranoid ideation; and odd behavior or appearance.
    Category 2 includes patients who have experienced psychotic symptoms that come and go, which have spontaneously resolved within a week.
    Category 3 includes a combination of genetic risk (i.e., being the first-degree relative of an individual with a diagnosis of schizophrenia) with substantial changes in personal daily functioning in the previous year. "

I believe running, especially long runs will cause changes in brain chemistry. Rapid increases in norepinephrine, GABA, and serotonin. I wonder if that sudden release triggers something. Same mechanism as a runner’s high

Interesting. It is common for marathon runners to experience cognitive impairment, delusions, and hallucinations. Does this occur late in the run? Is heat, altitude, or lack of fueling a factor?

Acute toxicity due to distribution of accumulated toxin (of some kind) by the violent action of running.

That's a very technologist know it all answer.

As if we fully understand, brain, conciousness, biology, body & spiritual experiences fully. There is so much to learn.

The questions for instance arises how does this connect to emotional & spiritual experiences that derive from those practices.

It's the same with psychedelics, they are chemically induced but often lead to meaningful experiences due a shift in the way we experience reality & conciousness.

Is it a peak into a wider experience of the world that makes us realize the world as we experience it, might not be as real as we think it is? Who knows, so many interesting questions & options.

citation needed

Got that one backwards:

> Hyperventilation is irregular breathing that occurs when the rate or tidal volume of breathing eliminates more carbon dioxide than the body can produce.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperventilation

I take it you haven't put a lot of effort into examining the practice? Pranayama is a pretty comprehensive system, and it has survived to this day for good reasons.

It seems obvious to me that the things you find obviously stupid, obviously aren't.